Akake on 2009/08/24 05:46:

I like that idea. :-)

I've tried both pixel art and vector. Neither seems to cooperate.

I like the idea of 3d art.

I've tried a bit of it in the past, and some of it actually came out okay.

I'll give it a try.

I think what I'll need for it is something a bit more powerful than python, though.

I think that if I'm to work in 3d, I'll need C++. Come to think of it, I've been meaning to try out OGRE3d for a while now...

I really appreciate the advice. :-)

I'll start playing with Blender. I need some practice with it.

---Akake

Akake on 2009/08/24 07:03:

I love Python, but it lacks alot of the libraries I think I'll need. C++ has the libraries, and I can glue it to a Python app with minimal trouble.

With C++ and Python, I can do just about anything I want. With just Python, my options for libraries are rather limited.

I want to use OGRE for graphics, but the Python bindings for it get unruly when you try to build them and don't set it up just right.

Large portions of the code will be Python, but C++ is useful for the power and for the libraries.

Akake on 2009/08/24 13:50:

I understand your point, Tee. :-)

I'll certainly keep trying the minimalist way of doing things, because it does seem to work well for me.

The particular feeling I want to express... Well, my Rabbit Hunt prototype came close, now that I think of it.

I want to try to explain that feeling... I think finding words for it will help me recreate it.

It's a feeling of freedom. Of a kind of... Agility. I guess I'd relate it to being very young and able to run tirelessly. It brings up images of animals in my mind.

When I think of it, it brings to mind a fox or rabbit, quick and agile, able to run and jump nimbly even in very rough terrain with lots of things in the way.

I... I felt it in Rabbit Hunt, actually. I suppose that's the best thing I can relate it to. It felt right somehow.

And in Rose, to an extent. And in really good games of Nexuiz, and Super Mario, and... I can't think of any others...

I don't know why I'm so drawn to it. It's a euphoric thing for me. I guess it's what draws me to twitch games, or so it seems.

I'm certainly going to look into re-making Rabbit Hunt after the compo is over. I think rethinking the environment will help me in that regard.

That said, I'll certainly keep trying to create better graphics. And I'll practice with Sfxr.

I want to create this feeling for people. It feels good sharing that with others.

And I suppose it isn't an issue of graphics. The issue I often have is sufficient ability to create the necessary sprites. I'll keep trying, though.

I also like Richard's idea of trying 3d. I'll definitely be looking into it.

Here's to working toward mastery, the state we always seek, but, if we're lucky, never reach. :-)

---Akake

spinach on 2009/08/24 19:05:

try a different approach to graphical representation. look at different movements in art history -- expressionist painting, limited animation (including early videogame sprites), sculpture and tools. over the last century, we've had a lot of work on going from strict representation of the world around us to a world of visual shorthands. among us "non-artists" there's a misconception that in order to come up with a shorthand of our own, we must first learn to do it all the hard way -- longhand first, you could say. this is simply Not True -- use the tools and ability available to you and express as simply as possible what you mean to express. you will save time, energy and agony, and you will know that You, Too Are An Artist!

Tee on 2009/08/25 02:05:

Akake: Based on your description, there's a very good chance you mean flow. :)

Now, I'm far from being an expert in the subject, but I have read quite a bit about it and I'll comment a bit about what I know about flow theory (if I'm mistaken in anything, feel free to correct me). I can't help it, this is a topic I really like. :)

Flow theory is a psychology theory very popular among game designers (although the theory applies to psychology, it can be adapted to game design quite easily). Flow is the name of that feeling of timelessness and pleasure people have when they're really absorbed into something they like very much, like when a musician plays music. There's this sense of fluidity and everything seems to fit in place; no doubt you have already felt it if you have a hobby you love, maybe while programming if it's something you love doing. It's quite obvious why it's interesting for game design.

Akake, your description reminds me of flow because flow is freedom in a sense, you feel free from time and other worries, your mind is completely into what you're doing and you're able to let go of everything else; it's like agility in the sense of fluidity as if you're gracefully passing through the obstacles (your example of being like a fox or a rabbit is a good one). It is euphoric like you said. The purpose of flow theory is to understand is how you can make people (or yourself) get into flow.

I won't write about the whole thing here because others can explain it much better than me (see links below), but I think at least a concrete example would be nice. In my opinion, the best example in terms of games are games like Guitar Hero/Rock Band/etc. You get completely absorbed in the game (the music helps a lot), the obstacles are temporally very smooth, the feedback is quick and clear, your advancement in skill is easy to feel. After you've mastered the basics, it's almost like your fingers play the game themselves -- that's flow (in my opinion). It's driven by a sense of immersion, clear goals and advancement, clear feedback, challenge and a sense of control.

I suggest reading on Decision Making and Flow Theory on Game Design Concepts. (By the way, Game Design Concepts is an ongoing online course on game design by Ian Schreiber, and I strongly recommend it. I haven't been able to catch up though due to lack of time (I'm way behind), but I certainly will read it all in the future.) If you have more time, read Csikszentmihalyi's book on Flow, I have read it and it's quite insightful. If you're lazy, at least check out Csikszentmihalyi's talk on TED. :)

If I sound a bit excited, it's because, like I said, it's a topic I really like. :) I just wish I were good at applying it in practice... (well, I haven't really tried, actually; maybe I'll try it this Pyweek...)

skaro on 2009/08/26 03:38:

I think I see where you're coming from, with respect to wanting to express a certain feeling with your games.
Riffing off of Tee's mention of flow, I find it helpful, once I have the concept for a game, to actually start out very early on with music added to the game. There are plenty of great creative commons tracks out there ready for sharing. Find a few that embody the feel of your game, and have them playing even when you're doing quick debug runs.
For me, that helps to keep the feel of the game mechanics congruent with the overall impression I'm trying to convey with the game.

But then again, I'm a big game music fan :)

If it's a matter of experience with drawing or sound engineering, this may also present a good opportunity for team-work. If you can find a volunteer artist and try to work with them to capture the feeling you want to express. Getting really great at every single aspect of game creation is something that I wanted to do when I was younger, and drove me to work in the software industry, but unless you have an awful lot of time to practice, mastering every aspect of development and asset creation is probably unrealistic, and maybe a bit unwise. There's something to be said for going it alone, but great synergy can happen if you work with the right people. The indy game Braid is a great example. There was an early version with similar gameplay but 90's shareware grade graphics. The creator teamed up with a webcomic artist, and the result was a fairly striking game experience.

PyWeek is a great place for lone wolves to shine, but no developer is an Island :)

Then again, expressing yourself within strict limits is another great part of PyWeek. My favorite is still the pygame.draw challenge where we were limited to 64k and a single python file.

Best,
~Skaro