My plea to the voters

sjbrown on 2008/08/27 20:53

Hi all.

I just want to make a plea to everyone - when it comes to theme voting, please give some consideration to the more abstract themes. I thought "robots" was a very concrete theme and was disappointed that it won last time. Hey, I like robots as much as the next guy, especially when they bring me sandwiches, but it didn't make a very good Pyweek theme.

My wishlist for a good PyWeek theme is as follows:

1) Constraining in some way - the best creativity comes when creators are forced to some sort of constraints. Also this is necessary to ensure that competitors don't start designing until the actual start of the competition.

2) Abstract, not aesthetic - This is the primary reason I didn't like "robots", especially compared to all the better options like "formation" and "mashed". Robots are pretty much just dressing that can be applied to any game (though don't get me wrong - many competitors did actually make a game that felt inspired by the theme)

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Comments

pymike on 2008/08/27 21:55:

Hmm... The "Robot" PyWeek had some of my favorite PyWeek games of all time (and I've played almost every one) If you recall, "Twisted" was a little more "abstract", and it was the worst (excuse the term) PyWeek IMHO. (well, except maybe "The Disappearing Act", which was also "abstract")

You need to vote on a theme that you think you can use. It's not much fun when you end up with a theme that "sounds" cool, but is hard to actually make a game of. But don't get me wrong either... I'm not against abstract, as long as it's possible to make a decent game that agrees with it in a short week.

Cheers!

Treeform on 2008/08/27 21:56:

i don't agree with you, i think all themes can put as a dressing on the game.

sjbrown on 2008/08/28 00:38:

It's the challenge that I enjoy. With "robots" you could pretty much make whatever game you wanted, and just put robots in as the characters, and that was full points for theme. With "twisted", I spent time making game elements that actually twisted. Both of my attempts in the last two competitions fell apart, but I enjoyed "twisted" a lot more because of the challenge.

Treeform, do you think it would be easier to dress a game in "robots" or "formation"? I agree that you could probably interpret any proposed theme as a dressing, but one lends itself to dressing more than the other.

RB[0] on 2008/08/28 03:23:

Formation is just as easy IMO, but that is mainly because of the type of games I like to make, so I see your point. Either way, there are some pyweeks that are like you describe, some not, I've liked some of each really.

eugman on 2008/08/28 11:04:

Regardless of whatever theme is chosen ~60% of the entrants will complain about it because it's not the one they picked.

pymike on 2008/08/28 13:05:

Haha how true.

sjbrown on 2008/08/28 18:52:

Sorry if this comes off as complaining about "robots". Let's focus on the positive. What makes a good theme?

I've stated my wishlist above. Maybe "abstract" isn't the best word because I would be happier with a concrete theme as well, ("It runs on steam" is a lot less abstract than "twisted"). The key is not being just aesthetic.

lucio on 2008/08/30 21:34:

let me save you guys some time:

OH! i cant belive that theme won! i *hate* it.

:)

j-1 on 2008/08/30 22:54:

Next challenge, "abstract" should be one of the themes.

Martin on 2008/08/30 22:59:

I think I could make a far more interesting game based on 'concrete'.

Codexus on 2008/08/31 11:56:

Robots is a great theme, the people that used it as a cosmetic theme only should not have gotten top theme points for that. To get those you'd have to make a game uniquely about robots (for ex. a game where you have to reprogram robots to solve the levels).

The theme needs to be open enough that people can actually make the kind of game they want to with a few adjustments. If the theme is too much of a constraint, some people are going to give up because they can't find a good idea for it.

Martin on 2008/08/31 12:06:

As I understand it, there's no such thing as 'theme points' in Pyweek. There's fun, innovation and production. None of these include points for making your game uniquely about the theme.

In my opinion, if you feel someone didn't follow the theme, you should mark them for disqualification. But if they did, even if only 'cosmetically', then you shouldn't mark them down, unless you feel that their game wasn't fun, innovative, or well produced.

RB[0] on 2008/08/31 15:54:

Generally I just check to make sure the theme is used, then proceed...
For me, usually I just score innovation as, well, how innovative the idea is, not how well it incorporates the theme. The biggest exception is when someone has obviously gone to great lengths to really incorporate the theme into an innovative usage, and the game itself is also quite innovative.