A question about rating

claxo on 2008/09/16 12:18
— edited on 2008/09/16 12:52

Hello, people!

This is my first pyweek and I have a doubt about rating:
I have python 2.4 , what will be the sensible thing to do for games that I cant run due to python 2.5 dependencies ?
1. Not rate
2. Rate as DNW, telling in the comment 'python 2.4 compatilibity problem'

I know it is not required 2.4 compatilibity.

Having an entry in this pyweek, I can feel a litle down seing the DNW count going up, but on the other side I prefer to know how much people have problems with my game, esp. if they can point out some concrete info.

comments ?

[ edited spelling only]

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Comments

Martin on 2008/09/16 12:34:

If you can't install Python 2.5 for some reason, I would say that your best bet is simply to not rate the game in question at all. Personally, I see DNW as being there to alert developers that their game doesn't work due to bugs, etc. Using it because you haven't installed the dependencies seems a little silly.

That said, it is always useful to know when dependencies are difficult to install, don't work on various systems, etc. I just don't see this as being the case with Python 2.5.

HanClinto on 2008/09/16 13:53:

I thought that when you click DNW, that your ratings don't count, and it's the numerically the same as not voting at all?

If so, then I vote for option #2.

Martin on 2008/09/16 14:03:

HanClinto: That's true. However, I'd still like to see DNW reserved for those cases where the game actually doesn't work, as opposed to the rater simply not bothering to install dependencies. After all, there's no requirement that you rate every game.

HanClinto on 2008/09/16 14:59:

Martin: Yeah, there's a fine line here. Is DNW for bugs in the game, or simply to say that there's an incompatibility with your system setup? Part of the choices that a game developer has to make is looking at what hoops customers will jump through in order to play your game. Will they install the Flash player? Will they install the Unity player? Will they install the .NET framework? Will they upgrade their RAM? Will they upgrade their video card? Will they boot into Windows? And so at the point where the player refuses to continue jumping through hoops to play my game is the point that I want to hear about -- and if that's through the DNW mechanism, that's fine, as it's still valuable feedback for me as a developer, as I try to decide what burdens I place on my potential players.

I'm curious to know if people were frustrated by my game's install process, or if they merely didn't get time to play my game, since the two of those are very different things that have impact on me when I choose my development platform.

I'm interested in that feedback -- how would you like to see such feedback given? If someone said:

"The game has too many dependencies"

Then that's valuable feedback that I really want to know. But then how would they rate it? If they gave me a 1 1 1, I'd be pissed if they didn't check the DNW box.

I'm fine with reserving the DNW box for errors with the game itself, but if so, then I want a viable alternative mechanism for getting dependency issues sent back to me.

--clint

Martin on 2008/09/16 15:19:

I do see your point here. It just saddens me a little that in a Python programming competition, people would claim that a game Does Not Work, rather than upgrade their Python installation to a version which has been available for over two years.

phoe6 on 2008/09/16 17:27:

Please upgrade your Python release to Py2.5, You can have multiple python installations in your system. So dont worry about losing existing ones. It would best be served if you satisfy the requirements for the game and then rate the game. Not rating or giving DNW for your problem is a not a good idea.

saluk on 2008/09/16 17:33:

Whatever you decide, please do not rate a game 1/1/1 when it doesn't work for you, and forget to click the DNW box. I have had this happen to me several times before, and it's not cool :)

gcewing on 2008/09/17 04:17:

Maybe there should be another check box for "I don't have the dependencies".

scav on 2008/09/18 21:35:

I'm rating 1/1/1 DNW for games that need something I probably can't be bothered installing. (e.g. a third-party library at a version my distro hasn't packaged yet). By definition, if I can't be bothered to do it, it's not fun.

I'm going to try again if I have time to get some of those things installed on Saturday.

I know the pain of seeing high% DNW all too well, but usually in my games it's because of weird OpenGL stuff.

joey101 on 2008/09/19 00:26:

scav: So maybe install pyOpenGL? It's not weird when you use it :)

I don't think I'll play your game because it uses pygame. Where do you draw the line?

gcewing on 2008/09/19 02:47:

Just having PyOpenGL installed is no guarantee that you'll be able to run an OpenGL game. It may depend on capabilities that your card or driver doesn't support, your card may not be able to keep up with its demands, etc.

RB[0] on 2008/09/19 02:49:

joey101: Installing pyopengl is usually not the problem ;)
More usually it is because the game uses a GL feature not all people have available, or do something funky, or just plain wrong.
Personally - if a game doesn't work for dependency issues - I just don't rate it. Simple.

joey101 on 2008/09/19 03:09:

As far as your video card not supporting stuff yeah, not much you can do about it. But I wouldn't call that a dependency issue, which I thought we were talking about - not hardware compatibility.

Personally I think it is somewhat silly to spend time doing fancy OpenGL stuff for a one week contest - especially when you risk it not running on others' systems. But then again if it really looks good and you enjoy doing it :) Maybe try to provide settings for disabling it for those ppl whos hardware doesn't support it.

joey101 on 2008/09/19 03:12:

I just realized that scav was talking about weird OpenGL stuff in *his* games. Heh, ok... I guess installing PyOpenGL won't help you with your problems much scav! :D

scav on 2008/09/20 10:23:

@joey101:

Yeah, my problems in previous contests have been largely self-inflicted :-(